Anonymous

Novi Grad, Bosnia-Herzegovina

Everything. Everything that happened, it’s best to know everything, sine, from A to Z. Just to learn literally about what happened, history. Better to write down everything. There was a lot of injustice. No one can forbid you to write, write everything. What happened, sine ... it’s better for everyone to know. Because they do not know, they may live in some delusion if they do not know the truth. But I think that today or tomorrow, the truth will come out. Justice will always come out.

Interview originally conducted in Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian

What’s your name? And tell me about yourself.

[Anonymous]. I was born in [the] ex-Yugoslavia, current Bosnia and Herzegovina, Novi Grad next to Odzak. Now I am currently residing here in Nashville.I came here 16th of April 2003. We are here now, yeah, we made do. Kids in school, already done, this one daughter was studying (unclear) and is now finishing. 

In war I was there [in Bosnia]...

I survived everything in war. The dying, the running, the fear.

My husband died there in war-- Actually, he was captured. He was captured 8th of May 1992, held captive for seven months. Came back home. [He]was there about 20 days and after that was shipped off to war to fight and died twenty three days later. He died 27th of January ‘93, and he was deployed 25th of December ’92. And so after that, I was left with two underage kids. It was hard... single mom. 

I found myself another husband and we came here. It wasn’t easy in the war, dying, running and…

What was life like before the war? 

Yeah, before the war, life was very good. We were all- I mean I was happy, content, I was working in Odzak as a textile worker. It was nice, everything was nice. We had friends and neighbors, good ones and…. Everything was good before the war. 

And what did you do before the war?

Ahhh before the war, I worked in Odzak in a store with  textiles. It made shirts, dresses, like sewn knitwear. I worked there for seven years, until the war. 

Before the war, I was in Ex-Yugoslavia, in Odzak. I am originally from Donja Dubica, next to Odzak and I was married into Novi Grad as well, all municipality Odzak, until the war. And so after the war, I stayed there in Novi Grad and didn’t run anywhere. Until the liberation, I stayed there, and in ’93 I came here to America, because our sister lives here. It was hard in the war, I mean it was hard for everyone. No one had it easy, and it wasn’t easy to those who got out. They were there with us too, survived the same as us. And especially who lost their loved ones, who we didn’t hear. Very, very hard really. I don’t have anything to say. I mean I’m sorry it was like that and… and I feel sorry for everyone and… I don’t know what to tell you.

And when did the war start for you? Was there a specific moment when you knew that something was happening, this is, like, real?

Yes, I was there in the war, ‘92 I was there in the war, I was running, we were in Novi Grad then. Then we were in the surrounding, when the grenades were falling, all that... I survived. Yeah, I survived all that. 

And what was a typical day during the war like? What was there to eat, how did you have fun, what was a typical day like?

A typical day was like… there was food to eat. I never went without having anything to eat because my brothers and sister were all abroad. They left before the war and always helped me like that. So there was food, when [everything] was calming down a little. So when it comes to [my story], I, thank God, didn’t go through any violence. God forbid... I’d say I’d have no fears like that. But fear like  the running and… you know, [with] two little kids, I’d hide a lot. I was very, very scared. 

How many kids did you have during [the war]?

I had two kids then, in the war. My son was 7 in the war, daughter was 3 or 4 years old.

They were little.

Little, little, yes. So I ran away with [them] - with the children... husband went to the war - to the battlefield and, I mean, he was captured, he returned 7 months after. He was there for 20 days and was killed in our army, Republika Srpska.

Were you still working during the war? 

No, no.

Everything [was closed]. I started working as a textile worker in '87. And as soon as the war broke out in '92, everything was interrupted. There was nothing left. And so it was hard, it was really hard ... As I said, I wasn't hungry, that's it. Hard and ... yes, yes, yes- although I [had food], because [my siblings] always sent me [money, food]. You know, in the war, they’d somehow come again. They would be in Switzerland, they were all in Switzerland. 

Was there anyone during the war who really helped you?

Hmm, I don’t remember. We were all together. How do I say this? In that situation, you were in the same situation as everyone [else]. 

So you were in Yugoslavia during the war for a year--

Yes.

-- and then you came to America in the third year?

No, from ‘92 to ‘95 I was there, in Novi Grad. We were in Novi Grad back then, and then we were all captured. The civilians and everyone. When we were captured, we civilians stayed there and our husbands were picked up [to go to] the camps. And later, we, from Novi Grad, all went to Odžak. After that, when the Republic of Serbia liberated Odžak, we all returned to Novi Grad. And although later it calmed down a bit, grenades were still falling a little but, you know, a little bit.And before the war, were there like signs or a sense that something would happen ?

Well, it's always like that, as I would tell you. As a girl, I always felt that a little .. to each their own you know? But then I was young, I didn't even understand what that meant. My parents didn't even talk about that. I mean, we did talk, we talked before about the suffering, what happened, but you know how, when you’re young, you don't take it seriously and ...we didn’t [know]. How would I tell you that? People didn’t believe that it would come- some believed so some escaped, some went to Serbia, some didn’t. We stayed there and we didn’t... we really didn’t believe. 

Can you think up an example of a  moment that, when you think about it now. see that it wasmaybe a sign of the war?

Yes, yes.

Can you think of an example of that?

Ahhh well... maybe if I had known that my husband realized that, if I had gone earlier, maybe I wouldn’t have been living through those fears. That maybe my husband wouldn’t have even been killed then… Although my [current] husband says someone had to have stayed too. Someone had to defend [the town].

And how did you meet?

He [current husband] was a medical worker, I was in Odzak. And then we met.

Sorry, did you meet here or--

There, we met there. We lived together for a long time, we weren't married since I had a pension from my [previous] husband at the time. We decided to go to America so then we had to get married. I didn't make a mistake, he's a good husband. I have a daughter with him and such is my destiny. The first husband was good and now this one too… although traumas always remain. The first husband, still, you know ... very, very hard. You always somehow feel a wound in your heart [for] your husband. What are you going to do? Life goes on, you can't change anything and so it was hard...

That’s war, sine. (term of endearment meaning son, but can be applied to any young person, even a girl).

Rat nikon nike brat (War isn’t anyone’s brother). 

And was there a more specific story? What was your story from the beginning of the war until you left? How did it look for you- now that you think about it?

Ahhh... before the war, everything was normal, normal like here as well. Later, when the war started, everything was different. Everything changed. War, people are dying, you're running. Husband held captive, you don’t even know that he is alive. Fear. Mostly fear-- I remember that the first time that the grenades started, us down in the basement…. I would only go to the bathroom at that time. Fear, just fear. Big fear. 

Although I was in Odzak then, I was in someone else’s house. I took someone else’s house, and everyone took. Sometime after that, in Novi Grad, Odzak and Novi Grad fell to the Croatian side. That was their (Croatia’s) territory. Everyone who wanted out of Odzak [got on] ships. So they all went to Modric. To this day, I went home to Modric. I mean, since no one wanted to stay there, everyone went to Modric. Then my brothers and sisters, all there in Modric. Even now they bought and have houses [there]. 

[Could] you say that again? I didn’t hear. They were in Modric?

No, we were all there in the Municipality of Odžak before the war. My sister, my brothers, and I were born there. Then in that war as Odžak fell [to the Croatian side], none of the Serbs wanted to stay, they all went [to Modric]. To their side, it's normal, you know. So I don't think anyone was left then, although now some people have come back. Like my brothers and sister came and then they were there. They liked Modrič and yeah, they have all now bought houses there in Modrič.

Yes, yes… during the war you said you had a lot of fear... did you ever have  a moment when you hoped? When you felt like “ahh well maybe this is”--

I did!

Yes, yes I did. Well yeah, I was young….I had hoped, I did.

Was there a specific moment when you felt that maybe things would change?

I constantly hoped that it will- that something will be better.

Well yeah, [there was] fear, how can it not when grenades [are falling]? Big [sigh] fear. And I'd always - when[I was] younger, I was hoping something had to happen ... you know? And let me tell you straight, it was different, sine. It (the territory) was ours then. Now (the territory) is ours - our people are managing it, our Republika Srpska, you know. Then it's a little easier, you’re on your own, do you understand? A grenade falls but you're on your own, you know? I’m from Novi Grad, and when the Croats captured us, because Novi Grad was surrounded, they were all around. Croats and Muslims, together, surrounded, you have nowhere to go. They promised us that they would let us all go as well as men and women. They did not let us go, they captured everyone, sine. Men and us women around the houses. And that period, sine, was the worst. That was the worst period.

-Terrible.

Yes, terrible, terrible. After our [army] took [the territory back], then it was easier. Easier when your [army] commands how they go to war.

And then when did you leave?

Oh ’93. And that all, I think, lasted for a year. Yeah, ’92 so my husband was 7 months [away], then it’s ’93.

And then you came--

Yes, I came to Novi Grad then we came here[to the US] together. [My first husband] died ’93 and then I was there with [my second husband]. Since [the territory] was also ours, I had just picked up kids and went and met [my new husband].

And what was the process when you came to the US? What was the process from Yugoslavia to here, now?

Well sine, it was all ruined. Everything was ruined, everyone made do. The whole house, you had to fix it up, tidy it up yourself. Some wanted to help so there were those donations that helped. But there was everything. I don't understand much about everything that happened. 

Everyone else made plans for us.

So you came in ’93. When did the war end for you? When was the moment when you felt then, it’s over?

Ahhh in ’95.But let me tell you, sine. I thought, since '93, it was already [the end for] us. [Even though the war continued elsewhere], you live normally because [the territory] is all ours. Someone drops a grenade down there, no more. It’s  already stopped.-- After you had come, the war was over?

Yes, yes the year was when it was the captivity. Then everything happened. And a little after, you know, it’s ours, no question about it.

And what was it like here in America? At the beginning, how did you learn English? What was that like?

Oh for me, sine, that was the worst [laughs]. It was worse for me than war. It's very difficult - very, very [difficult]. It was very difficult because my mother was there. In fact, my mother was in Switzerland with the children from ‘92 to ‘97. After ‘97, my mother came to me. When Odžak was on our side (the Serbian side), she was with me as well, but I think she was there for a year. In the meantime, her brother buys her a house since my mother no longer wanted to be there [in Odžak]. For a while she was actually with me until my brother bought a house. We were close then. Five, maybe, minutes from home to mom, I always took care of her, you know. And then in the meantime I was already asking to go to America, since my sister sent me a guarantee. And just as my mom went there to Switzerland in 2003 to get the medical reports there since there she didn't pay anything. And there, she experiences a stroke. She was very attached [to us] (?) since my father died I guess,[and when] she was a child, she was 10 years old when her father died.). In the meantime, I got [the papers] to go to America. When I came here ... I think we came here on the 16th , I think my mother somehow came there, 10 days earlier to Modric, you know? 

So it was very hard. I left my mother there, my mother was  sick, I came here. I didn't know the language. I had three children. There is no one to help you. It's a difficult situation, sine, not many would help. The children don't know English, so I [muffled sound of pain] took it very, very bad. There in Bosnia, my mother died 6 months later. I couldn't go to the funeral. [It was a] very, very hard time for me.

And then, did--

-- It was very hard, veeery, sine. Now it’s great, now we’re good. You get used to it here in time. Now I don’t mind. You have here both company and friends, and all that. In time, it becomes your city.

How do you feel now towards the Balkans, Yugoslavia, Bosnia?

Most beautiful.

It’s most beautiful over there. The most beautiful. To me, it’s the most beautiful. I feel everything normally now already[everything that] had to be, that way it had to be. Everyone went on their own side, everyone now got what they wanted.

What was the biggest change in the culture between prewar and after the war?

Ahh yes a lot changed, the culture. 

A lot, sine. Before the war, people somehow were happier. They hung out more, loved each other more. Now it’s all like… there, everything became like here [in America]. Everything is somehow seen through money, through interest…

And I guess like that- poverty, there, right now. And different ways of thinking before the war. Different, everything changed, fully.

Do you think that it will maybe be better in the future--?

It willYes, yes. It has to be better. Something has to happen, go forward. Every generation brings with it new knowledge, new future. Everything is changing back at ours.

When was the first time you returned to Bosnia after the war?

Aaah... 2017. The first time I went back down there [from America].

-- Ahh well a long time.

A loong, uh, twenty,thirty years [when] I went down there.

And why such a long time? 

-- Because I didn't have an American passport then. I applied for American citizenship. I didn't pass, you know. It stayed like that: I'll go today or tomorrow. Then some obligation and a lot of work. I don't even know why I didn't [go back]. So I went in 2017, and I went for a white passport [soft laughter]. In the meantime, [my] daughter, she [told me], “You can go”. Instead of Bosnian [passport], I had a white card. Yes- [soft laughter]. I'm leaving here for Nashville - Dallas, Dallas-London, London-Belgrade. I'm down in London, but I can't go any further. I don't have a visa on the white card. Then I go back to America.

Why did you decide to move back to Bosnia? Rather than stay in America? Now that you’re selling your house and all, why--

Well because I want to be… happier. A person is happiest where they belong.

You know what I realized? I realized that money doesn't matter anymore in life. It only matters that a [person] is happy. There [in Bosnia it only matters] that you and I talk nicely. As if it matters what you have, what I do, it's important that it's nice. Only nice words matter. It's important to have a soul everywhere, it's important to always be humane and always help people and be positive. Don't go, sine, after wealth, go after spirituality.

What is happier? ‘It is happier that it is spiritual, that with spirit, so I’m going there’.

-- Your soul belongs there.

Soul, sine. My roots are there. I tell my daughter, today, tomorrow; whatever happens, sine, choose to always know where you are from. That is to always know. To have your child, today or tomorrow, to teach him our culture and to teach him to speak our language - to know where he's from, you understand?

Yes.. I think that’s a special thing, to know where you’re from.

Yes sine, so you always know who you are, what you are, where from and who are your people. That is a big mistake, sine. There are so many of our people who [don’t]. 

I just have two more questions--

-- Go ahead, sine, just you go ahead.

Is there like a specific thing you want Americans to know about the war? In Bosnia?

Well it’s best they know everything that happened.

Yes, but is--

-- something specific? 

Yes, specific is only that there were the crimes from all three sides. And you know, sine, what I'm most sorry for and I always really regret overall in life is when a man is killed. I'm always sorry for that- especially who is not guilty. Especially war. I feel sorry for the civilians, I feel sorry for the children, that's what makes me most sorry. Do you understand? And if it’s already war, if the shots are already fired, that's how it had to be. It's not that it could have been avoided. That’s what I’m most sorry for. 

Is there still that tension, do you think, between the groups?

Well, yes!

Yes, but that will exist for another hundred years, one hundred percent. There are and will always be, you know that little reproach - it exists. You are, sine, abroad, a foreigner, always. I was always somehow on the sidelines. They always pushed me away somehow, and so when I go to the doctor, I always have to stay for an hour and a half to wait. An American won’t, so I say, a foreigner, sine, always stays a foreigner. That’s for my generation, I don't know for the younger ones how it goes, I guess they go there to school and maybe it's different for you.

Is there something special that you want the people on the Balkans to know about the war, what happened?

Everything. Everything that happened, it’s best to know everything, sine, from A to Z. Just to learn literally about what happened, history. Better to write down everything. There was a lot of injustice. No one can forbid you to write, write everything. What happened, sine ... it’s better for everyone to know. Because they do not know, they may live in some delusion if they do not know the truth. But I think that today or tomorrow, the truth will come out. Justice will always come out. The one upstairs is watching us all, one hundred percent.

Is there a specific story you want to tell?

Well nothing. That’s it. I don’t know what I’d say. 

Now is now. Now it is also different. Every year, everything changes a little differently. People's consciousness is changing, more modern, progressing. Children think differently, and now everyone is more educated, thus more advanced, you know? A different opinion. And that will change, it will be better. I hope it will be better, it must be better. That's really the case with us now - me. I left in ’93, and I didn't go [to Bosnia] until 2017. When I left, it really changed completely. You know it’s different and like here too. I would tell you now it's almost like here. But look, it is - do you think that in our country it is the same as here almost? There in Serbia and Bosnia, it’s the same, sine. What do you think: what's different for you here and there?

What’s to me?

What’s different for you here and there? If you’ve been down, recently, I was in 2017. What’s different to you now? To me, really, it’s almost the same. And you? If you’ve been recently? 

Ha...

Ah, well... people have totally different versions of the country, history.

Ah well yeah. Everyone has something different of their own. Now when you ask someone, someone else will have a different story, but what will you do? You, again, somehow take away what you know is history. What others, by what the majority says, that you take away what the minority. Well, you know that yourself. [laughs] That's it. If you are interested in anything else, say so.

[laughs] Thank you very much for talking with me. I know this was last minute so thank you.

No, sine, thank you as well. I love to help.

Yes. [laughs] I hope that this can help.

It can help, sine, it can. Something is still being preserved and like you say, sorrowful. I’m always sorry that my husband died, it’s a big pain.

I hope it will be better. I really hope that.

And it will, it’ll soon be better.